Conversations with Dan Georgakas
(An interview series with Alexander Kitroeff and
Yiorgos Anagnostou)

Introduction

In late March 2019, historian Alexander Kitroeff and I visited Dan Georgakas (1938-2021) at his home in Amherst, Massachusetts, for a series of interviews. The aim was to explore his personal experiences and perspectives about a wide range of issues in Greek America, including his anti-junta activism, editorship of several journals as well as points of view on the Greek Orthodox church, Greek American studies, and ethnic identity among others. It was an engaging and joyful three days of conversation, reflective dialogue and laughter while enjoying Dan and his partner Barbara Saltz’s graceful hospitality.

In preparing for the interview, Alexander Kitroeff and I agreed on the following division of labor regarding the angles of inquiry. Kitroeff explored issues of political activism during the junta in Greece (1967-1974), the Greek Orthodox Church, the American Hellenic Educational Progressive Association (AHEPA), the American Hellenic Institute (AHI) and issues of Greek American futurity. Anagnostou discussed questions regarding Greek American studies, immigrant labor history, editorship of journals, ethnic identity politics and cultural “preservation,” the role of the public intellectual, growing up as a Greek American in Detroit and African Americans.

Our project was conducted a year after the magazine marginalia published an extensive interview with Dan, in May 2018, about his pollical activism in the 1960s and 1970s in Detroit and New York City. An extensive video interview is also available at the Hellenic American Project website. Together, the three interview events contribute toward a greater understanding of Georgakas as a historian, editor, and political activist among other roles and commitments.

Starting February 2025, Ergon will be publishing the interviews in several segments.

1. Journal of the Hellenic Diaspora (forthcoming in February)

Dan Georgakas passed away on November 23, 2021. Among several tributes, I share here the one we assembled for Ergon; Cineaste magazine also honored Dan hailing him as one of its “most important and longest-serving editors and contributors”; and EMBCA in a video panel discussion, “The Life, Times, and Works of Dan Georgakas.”

Yiorgos Anagnostou
February 14, 2025

Credit: I thank OSU’s Modern Greek Program for providing funds toward the transcription of the interviews.

Note: For the record, in early March 2019, I sent the following questions to Dan in anticipation for the interview:

Scholarship, Greek American Studies

• Your role as a historian of Greek America is well known and highly recognized. Among other important contributions, you have invested extensively to foreground the history of the Greek American working class—you “broke the silence” about the Greek American left is how you have put it—a topic which was (and still is to some extent today) a neglected topic. We know a great deal about your purpose in doing so through your writings, including your debate with Charles Moskos. Would you please chart for us your key contributions to Greek American studies (GAS)? Why was it important to know about the working class? What was your purpose in each key contribution? Help us understand how you shaped the terrain of GAS.

• In addition to those differences between yourself and Charles Moskos that were discussed in the “Moskos-Georgakas” debate, there seemed to be another gulf between your understanding of history and Moskos’s. It seems to me that Moskos’s explanation of success through the struggle and success narrative is fundamentally different than (in fact incompatible with) your understanding of the causes of Greek America’s mobility, which takes into account the role of structural factors such as class and race. This is a huge gulf. Still, it appears that you were able to find a common ground with Moskos (if “common ground” is indeed the correct term) in your subsequent collaboration for the volume New Directions in Greek American Studies? Can you help us understand this collaboration? How were the ideological differences accommodated?

• In the past, Greek American institutions were foregrounding public debates involving Greek American academics and writers. They organized round table discussion to address issues about the community’s self-understanding. I recall a program produced by the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in the 1990s, which featured a televised round table discussion between Charles Moskos and Constance Callinicos, among others. [Also, the panel “Beyond Success.”] Things seem to have changed. As a community, we do not seem to be interested in involving a wide range of authors and academics in these debates any longer. [There was a small-scale exchange in The National Herald about the Greek American position on racial profiling. But this was localized.] What is more, many community-produced narratives about identity exclude the perspective of scholars, or they include very selective ones. In your view, is this indeed the case? If so, how do we make sense of this situation? What is a couple of issues, you think, worth debating today?

• This brings me to this question: What is the role today, do you think, of a scholar working on Greek America? What are her responsibilities? Is there something “political” in this role? Is there a space for radical interventions in Greek American studies? If so, how would this look like?

• I believe that you will agree that Greek American studies are marginalized in today’s academy. You have repeatedly alerted the Greek American public about it, and you have spoken about the need for establishing endowed Chairs in Greek American studies (GAS). But the Greek American community, at the institutional level, seems unresponsive. What is your perspective on this situation? What is the value of GAS? What is its place in the community? What should that place be?

• Please share with us your vision for GAS. What is it that you would like to see done? What is the role of theoretical work in Greek American scholarship? What are the major challenges that GAS is facing today? What are some urgent issues? What directions do you envision?

• Please add a question on this topic that you would like to address

Public Intellectuals in Greek America (see also next section)

• What is the role today, do you think, of the role and responsibilities of a Greek American public intellectual? Is there something “political” in this role? Is there room for intellectual radicalism, to speak truth to power? What are the priorities and urgencies?

• In relation to the above question, many Greek American leaders and institutions advocate unity, stressing the power of community unity for the purpose of ethnic preservation. At the same time, the same leaders and institutions produce narratives of identity that do not represent the entire community. These narratives are too narrowly scripted. They do not recognize the community’s internal diversity and exclude non-normative identities; they often sugarcoat history; they idealize and celebrate for the purpose of generating ethnic pride and, one might say, positive ethnic branding. Dissenting voices, it seems to me, are neglected by the leadership.

• In the absence of public debates (see above) over issues, the call for unity impose homogeneity in perspectives: one version about Greek American history and identity. What is your perspective on this dynamic? If you were to give a public lecture on this topic, what would your main points be?

• Please add a question on this topic that you would like to address

Journals, Public Intellectual, Community

• You have a long history of involvement with magazines, journals, and the media. Elsewhere you have commented about your connections with Serendipity and Cineaste. I would like to discuss your involvement with the Journal of the Hellenic Diaspora. What were the circumstances of your involvement? What was your motivation, what did you wish to accomplish? Also, if you could share with us, what was the experience like working for the Journal? What did you learn as a scholar and public intellectual from this involvement? How do you see the role of academic journals, and magazines that devote themselves to Greek America? In retrospect, is there something that you would have done differently? Do you have any recommendations about the scope, style, and content for those who might wish to continue this Greek American journal tradition?

• I would like to discuss how you see your role as a scholar and public intellectual writing for the Greek American media, particularly The National Herald. You are reaching out to the “community.” Please place this role within your larger relation with the Greek American community. What is it that propelled you to write for the Herald? Has your role changed throughout the years in the context of dramatic political changes both in Greece and the United States?

• I would also like to discuss your editorship of the American Hellenic Institute Foundation Policy Journal (published by the American Hellenic Institute [AHI]). How did this collaboration come about? What are your interests as an editor? What is it that you would like to feature in the Journal and why? What informed your recent decision to include poetry?

• In this context I would like to place your work for AHI in the larger political trajectory of your life. It seems that this affiliation—but also others, including your public lectures about the Pontian genocide—marks a turn in your life, from radical politics to also the politics of ethnic identity. Of course, you have spoken in public about your political motivation to turn to ethnic politics in the context of the anti-junta movement. Would you please help us understand the wider context of your involvement with AHI and other Greek American institutions (beyond the anti-junta movement)? What does your involvement enable? Are there any issues that you have liked to address with the community, but somehow you didn’t?

• Please add a question on this topic that you would like to address

Ethnic Preservation

• Many local communities and organizations are undertaking a variety of initiatives to preserve history and strengthen the visibility of Greek culture in the United States (Philadelphia [including the goal of creatine a museum], San Francisco [film festival]) I would like to return to the notion of the “political” that has been so significant in your life. Is there anything “political” that you would like to see in these preservation projects and initiatives? What value is there in trying to preserve an identity?

• What is your vision of an ideal Greek American museum? What should such a museum include?

• Please add a question on this topic that you would like to address

How would you like to conclude this interview?